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FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

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Re: FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

Postby Brian Damage » Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:02 pm

Addemod wrote:I were also having trouble doing the pilot learn at first. However, I got error code 196.
Did you bleed your fuel lines after reinstalling them? I could never get the engine running without manuelly cracking each line open until diesel were coming out, one line at a time.

I also got the same issue with the rev needle, feels like this is due to the engine being flooded but then it recovers after some time. Mine also had lots of white diesel smoke on startup.

Did you replace all injectors at the correct position? If not, you have to code each individual injector.

To ”fix” my error code, I took the van for a short drive to try get rid of any air left in the system. Not sure if this actually was what fixad it or not, but I could successfully do the learn after.

Check my post: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=227568



Hi, yes I bled the lines as soon as everything was back together again, put kitchen roll under the line and cranked the engine about 3 times for a few seconds until the tissue was soaked then tightened up the lines again, cranked the engine and started instantly. The trouble with doing one line at a time would this not push air into the system through the other lines while cranking/bleeding one of them? Hard to crank due to flooded cylinders does make sense however I’m going to check my crank sensor on the flywheel and make sure it’s not crudded up. Yes I changed each seal and washer 1 by 1 to be sure they all went back where they came from and didn’t get mixed up and also coded the new one correctly. I was sent an instruction sheet by the company who sent me my reconditioned injector and they advised after bleeding hold the revs at 2500rpm for 50seconds to get rid of any trapped air and go from there which I have been doing but having no luck, learn fails every time, it’s only started failing since I done the latest update on forscan, before that it would allow me to successfully complete the learn even if I was just above the red on fuel and also with bad diesel knock from a faulty injector, but now it tells me I need 25% in the tank and to hold the revs at 3000rpm for 3 minutes to get rid of trapped air even if I have more than 25% fuel and no air in the system, so I don’t know if forscan have tightened the parameters on injector learning?
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Re: FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

Postby knobby1 » Wed May 01, 2024 12:22 am

Brian Damage wrote:Hit’s only started failing since I done the latest update on forscan,


What's this "update" you speak of..??

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

Postby Brian Damage » Wed May 01, 2024 6:16 am

knobby1 wrote:
Brian Damage wrote:Hit’s only started failing since I done the latest update on forscan,


What's this "update" you speak of..??

Lord Knobrot


There is a new version of forscan that was recently updated, version 2.3.59, a bit like when an app on your phone updates and it seem as though it hasn’t been able to complete the learn process since updating as before it would complete it as many times as I’d like
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Re: FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

Postby knobby1 » Wed May 01, 2024 8:52 am

Brian Damage wrote:
knobby1 wrote:
Brian Damage wrote:Hit’s only started failing since I done the latest update on forscan,


What's this "update" you speak of..??

Lord Knobrot


There is a new version of forscan that was recently updated, version 2.3.59, a bit like when an app on your phone updates and it seem as though it hasn’t been able to complete the learn process since updating as before it would complete it as many times as I’d like


Ah..What cable are you using.?? Forscan doesn't recommend the old ELM327 (H/M-can switched), cable anymore...they recommend these two now..:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094Z7PBLS

https://www.obdlink.com/products/obdlin ... ef=forscan

I have them both and they work fine on the new version of Forscan.

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

Postby Brian Damage » Wed May 01, 2024 12:47 pm

Ah..What cable are you using.?? Forscan doesn't recommend the old ELM327 (H/M-can switched), cable anymore...they recommend these two now..:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094Z7PBLS

https://www.obdlink.com/products/obdlin ... ef=forscan

I have them both and they work fine on the new version of Forscan.

Lord Knobrot[/quote

Yeah I do have the older H/M can switched one, do you reckon it won’t complete because of this? It’s always worked fine for me up until now
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Re: FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

Postby knobby1 » Wed May 01, 2024 7:44 pm

Brian Damage wrote:Ah..What cable are you using.?? Forscan doesn't recommend the old ELM327 (H/M-can switched), cable anymore...they recommend these two now..:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094Z7PBLS

https://www.obdlink.com/products/obdlin ... ef=forscan

I have them both and they work fine on the new version of Forscan.

Lord Knobrot[/quote

Yeah I do have the older H/M can switched one, do you reckon it won’t complete because of this? It’s always worked fine for me up until now


As mentioned, the latest versions of Forscan, (2.3.60 is now the latest), don't recommend the use of the ELM-327 cables.

See here:

ELM-327.JPG


Lord Knobrot
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2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

Postby Brian Damage » Wed May 01, 2024 10:11 pm

knobby1 wrote:
Brian Damage wrote:Ah..What cable are you using.?? Forscan doesn't recommend the old ELM327 (H/M-can switched), cable anymore...they recommend these two now..:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094Z7PBLS

https://www.obdlink.com/products/obdlin ... ef=forscan

I have them both and they work fine on the new version of Forscan.

Lord Knobrot[/quote

Yeah I do have the older H/M can switched one, do you reckon it won’t complete because of this? It’s always worked fine for me up until now


As mentioned, the latest versions of Forscan, (2.3.60 is now the latest), don't recommend the use of the ELM-327 cables.

See here:

ELM-327.JPG


Lord Knobrot


Okay thanksI’ve bought one so I’ll see tomorrow when it arrives
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Re: FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

Postby Brian Damage » Wed May 08, 2024 9:01 pm

As mentioned, the latest versions of Forscan, (2.3.60 is now the latest), don't recommend the use of the ELM-327 cables.

See here:

ELM-327.JPG


Lord Knobrot[/quote]

Hi mate just a quick update,

I’m still having no luck with my van, I’ve ended up replacing x3 injectors with reconditioned injectors all with paperwork, codes and washers but it still won’t complete the pilot learn and there is also smoke on a cold start - start up and rough idle for the first 5 minutes. The company I bought the injectors from have been trying to help me with my problem but no luck, they told me to send back the injectors I bought and they will replace them with new ones and new codes. But tonight when I was removing the injectors I noticed that all 4 of the injector noses/needles were absolutely caked in burnt on oil which tells me the washers are failing and letting oil in (which I think explains my smoke on start up as I think it’s burning oil) once I cleaned the injectors seats and cut them again I noticed in atleast 2 injector bores there are gouges out of the metal on the seats right around the bit where the needle/nose goes through into the cylinder and I think this might be my problem as I’m now a bit worried because I can’t see how this is repairable (the only way I can see it being repairable is to be welded but how can you weld inside an injector bore..) I have seen quite a few different people say that pilot learns can fail from copper washers not being properly sealed and I have cut them as much as I can to smooth the surface but the gouges are too deep and I don’t want to mess up the timing. Do you have any advice on what to do next please as I am pretty certain new injectors are not going to solve my problem. I have also bought the new OBD adapter you recommended and replaced the crankshaft sensor but still have the same problems. Thanks
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Re: FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

Postby knobby1 » Thu May 09, 2024 3:57 am

Brian Damage wrote:As mentioned, the latest versions of Forscan, (2.3.60 is now the latest), don't recommend the use of the ELM-327 cables.

See here:

ELM-327.JPG


Lord Knobrot


Hi mate just a quick update,

I’m still having no luck with my van, I’ve ended up replacing x3 injectors with reconditioned injectors all with paperwork, codes and washers but it still won’t complete the pilot learn and there is also smoke on a cold start - start up and rough idle for the first 5 minutes. The company I bought the injectors from have been trying to help me with my problem but no luck, they told me to send back the injectors I bought and they will replace them with new ones and new codes. But tonight when I was removing the injectors I noticed that all 4 of the injector noses/needles were absolutely caked in burnt on oil which tells me the washers are failing and letting oil in (which I think explains my smoke on start up as I think it’s burning oil) once I cleaned the injectors seats and cut them again I noticed in atleast 2 injector bores there are gouges out of the metal on the seats right around the bit where the needle/nose goes through into the cylinder and I think this might be my problem as I’m now a bit worried because I can’t see how this is repairable (the only way I can see it being repairable is to be welded but how can you weld inside an injector bore..) I have seen quite a few different people say that pilot learns can fail from copper washers not being properly sealed and I have cut them as much as I can to smooth the surface but the gouges are too deep and I don’t want to mess up the timing. Do you have any advice on what to do next please as I am pretty certain new injectors are not going to solve my problem. I have also bought the new OBD adapter you recommended and replaced the crankshaft sensor but still have the same problems. Thanks[/quote]

Have you reset the PRV open and duration timers.?? Have you done and injector leak-off test..?? Even on the reconditioned ones..?? I assume you loaded the new injector correction codes into Forscan..??

Injector seats not being well won't help, annealing the copper washers may help them seal a bit better....but this shouldn't stop the learns from completing. The system won't know the copper washers aren't sealing well. You can't mess up the timing by cutting the seats.

Pilot learns usually fail if the injectors aren't well.

Lots of things to think about.

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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